Offensive problems/observations (merged threads)

[legba]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

I have not read all the posts in this thread, but I would love to see Baron Huber line up as a true fullback and block for Ingram.

 

[RhodeIslandRed]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

I'm kind of concerned that this wasn't just a bad game, but an actual trend. Offensive production has been trending downward for the past 3 games. This may likely point to a systematic/fundamental problem.

For example at the beginning of the season, CNS commented that the offense last year started with a big playbook, but as the season closed, the playbook steadily shrunk, with plays being run with only what works. So this year, they decided to introduce new elements into the playbook. Are we seeing the same phenomenae again half-way through the season? I'm not saying that this is the actual problem, but the problem may center around how the offense does things or even how its organized to the point that the defenses can easily adapt to its schemes or predict some trends.

 

[bamanut_aj]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

I asked the question last week, how many games do you have to see ineffectiveness until you're allowed to become concerned (I was concerned after two, concerned enough to post about it after 3). Apparently, the answer is: Four Games. Last week all was well. No need to post. Now the whole thing is busted. Four Games.

 

[RolltideFanz]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

But I do know that Saban thinks a large part of it is internal. If you listened to his post-game comments, you know that Jim McElwain and the other offensive coaches are not going to have a pleasant couple of weeks.

He repeatedly said that we have way too many weapons to be performing as poorly as we are.

Good to hear. I haven't heard his comments, but I do have to say that I think he needs to get after his staff about some of the playcalling that is going on. I'm very unhappy with, again, some of it. Enough said.

 

[tusctider]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

Gary Danielson may indeed be an idiot, but he addressed something today that was spot on about GMac. Gary said that CJM told them that one of GMac's biggest problems of late has been rushing through his progressions too quickly. Now, in the last two games, GMac hasn't exactly had any time to get through his reads, so rushing some throws then is understandable. But today, he wasn't under the same type of pressure, and you could see where he made his read and threw the ball a little quicker than he should have. If he lets some of these plays develope a second or two more, maybe a bigger play opens up. I have faith that GMac and the coaches will use this off week to figure it out.

And speaking of off week, this team desperately needs this one. We looked tired in the 2nd half. The D was missing tackles, we could get pressure on Crompton, Ingram looked less powerful than usual, and our O-line looked beat.

He needs to let the wr's have a chance to get open. There are no downfield plays of late and that will have to change quickly. I'm afraid they'll continue to load the box and make McElroy beat them and he's not that kind of qb. 8-o! Maybe that was the tight one like last yrs. Ole Miss game. RTR!!

 

[southface]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

Our QB was better today than the last two games. Drops by the receivers are killing his confidence. He threw several very accurate passes that aggressive receivers should catch. Yes the UT DB's were getting hands in to touch the ball but that's because our receivers are waiting for the ball to come to them instead of reaching out and going for the ball.

 

[Bamaball2001]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

Whew! I read every thread here. After the game I put myself on a 24 hour time out rule.

A lot of people have a lot to say that I agree with but IMO the last two weeks in particular have had too many instances of just plain ole bad play calling.

I like coach Mac and I am not or would not, in any way, suggest he be replaced but recently he has been calling plays that are predictable or ones which put his players in situations that they cannot do what they do best....

I think we're trying to hard to "not be predictable." Instead, we are not getting into a rhythm run blocking or passing because, heck, we don't know what our identity is.

Well said I think CJM is trying to be too creative. It is he that needs to get back into a rhythm and his players will follow.

I was yelling at the TV! There have been times before that I have just shook my head when we stopped doing soemthing that was working and got fancy. It could have made the difference in winning the game.

So was I and I will bet most of us were. And, it was the same last week. IMO it seems to be getting worse each week. That is what has me worried.

... It was VERY poor play calling. Almost cost the game.

If you watch the game over you will see many instances of poor play calling.

I was very puzzled by the play calling myself.

Honestly, I believe our offense played better than in the previous 2 games. I'm sorry, but I blame this one on a mixture of playcalling...McElwain, Saban and McElroy need to straighten this mess out.

Yes they do

Good to hear. I haven't heard his comments, but I do have to say that I think he needs to get after his staff about some of the playcalling that is going on. I'm very unhappy with, again, some of it. Enough said.

Yes he does

That implies our coach(es) can be idiots. Those are strong words after a great victory don't you think? Unless you don't see this as a great victory, in which case I would call idiotic.

That victory was nice to have; great it was not. It was lucky, plain and simple...

In the last quarter we settle for a field goal; then give up a late TD; then give up an onside kick; then have your D Tackle covering their tight end and give up a big pass play that sets up the game winning field goal which is kicked low enough to enable our 355 pound nose tackle to block his second FG of the game! Cody will never block another field goal in his life but if he hadn't blocked either one of of the two that he did, we lose the game....nothing is "great" about that.

I did not feel good like I should have after a win against UT; they are not a great team, we were very lucky and it should have never boiled down to luck.

 

[Bamaball2001]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

the lack of wildcat in the second half was idiotic to say the least. We had them sold out on that run...begging for big play in the passing game. Heck, we were more effective running out of that formation than standard under center or shotgun.

And we should have kept it up. Using both Ingram and Richardson to keep them strong.

The last part of the game they started stacking the box during the wildcat because we lack a pass threat in the wildcat formation. Why not use Star in the wildcat QB position? Everyone knows that it is the wildcat, so why not put Star in there and add the possibility of a throw back pass to him; he is a threat to throw down field or run the ball. Or, use him in an end around with him running the ball? It adds one more layer to the formation to consider. With Greg you don't have to consider this, it makes the DCs job a lot easier.

 

[Bamaball2001]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

On a smaller scale but to me just as frustrating is our special teams play.

I know that the kicks are not deep but we consistently tackle poorly and move out of our tackling lanes allowing the runner to cut back; not to mention penalty after penalty. We might as well give them the ball on the 35 and get it over with.

This is a very good team that IMO has not been playing up to its potential. Hopefully, they are just tired and will use this bye week to rest up and recompose ourselves. LSU will not be as accommodating as UT.

 

[RedElephant92]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

Hopefully the ego protection will end after this close call. It's time to go with the hot hand and quit worrying about stroking ego's. There is no excuse for the red zone play calling.

I heard Coach Saban actually being critical of the defense after the game and making excuses for the offense. Anyone that can be critical of this defense is being dishonest, imo. When will the offense be held to the same high standard the defense is being held??

 

[Crimson Cat]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

This is slightly off-topic, but does anyone remember how many times Danielson commented on our wildcat plays in the 1st half, saying he really thought we might try to pass out of it at some point...I seem to remember he spoke of it several times. He almost had me thinking we would, at one point, although I really doubt we will see that. Passing in that formation, would be a high risk play, especially when Ingram runs it so well.
Just thought it interesting.

 

[Bamaball2001]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

This is slightly off-topic, but does anyone remember how many times Danielson commented on our wildcat plays in the 1st half, saying he really thought we might try to pass out of it at some point...I seem to remember he spoke of it several times. He almost had me thinking we would, at one point, although I really doubt we will see that. Passing in that formation, would be a high risk play, especially when Ingram runs it so well.
Just thought it interesting.

IMO it would be a lot less risky if Star was in the formation. A lot of possibilities exist in both the passing and running game with him in there. At the very least it gives the D a lot more to think about. Obviously, the coaches don't think so but I cannot see how it could be a negative. I am not talking every time but a play or two with him involved would put a lot of pressure on the D.

 

[dvldog]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

He repeatedly said that we have way too many weapons to be performing as poorly as we are.

My sentiments exactly. That will be 2.5 mil per yr and thank you very much.

 

[BamaPride1979]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

I have one question you know Coach Saban is going to watch the film and when he sees that the play calling is what hurt us this week WHAT does he say to Coach Mac? I just think that when your inside the 5 yard line and what 2nd and 1 and you throw 2 pass plays that are the exact same instead of put it in the running backs hand and try to get the first down and or the touch down... yeh I would say that is poor play calling right there.. I just hope that the offense gets the swagger that they had in the first 5 games back befor the LSU game. If not then I am going to be worried until the game is over...

 

[LSUTIGERS11]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

idk but the LSU defense isnt going to make life any easier. If Bama wants to have sucess its gonna have to come from thier side cause the LSU D keeps looking better and even showed some creativity we hadnt seen in 2 years last night.

 

[64met]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

Read through most of this thread and although I am no expert; IMO BAMA inside the 10 needs to RUN THE BALL! There where several calls inside and outside the red zone Saturday that as a fan had me wondering what where we doing? Somewhat off topic; but MI had 99 yards; but it just seemed the rotation of backs occured to frequently... RB's need a rhythm and the "feel" of the game; so why have your number one back on the bench as much as it appeared he was?

In the end; I have EVERY confidence in CNS.... he will get this figured out!

RTR!!!!

 

[CapstoneTider]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

A few comments, first with the play calling. There was a peculiar flow to the offense, but was that dictated at all by a GMAC nagging injury? He may have a slight injury from three games ago for all I know, and I haven't seen CNS's staff advertise nagging injury's for privacy and strategic concerns. I believe Julio has had one but is getting over it.

I saw a comment that we were lucky to win, I see it the other way around, with some statistics to boot. We were up 12-3 with 3 minutes remaining, With the Ball mind you, and our best hands fumbles inside the red zone(odds .04%). They score the first TD against our defense in nearly 13 quarters (odds 10%(?))and then we overshoot an on side kick for them to recover(10-20%). They then must make a 40+ yard field goal (30%)

You add all those odds up and it's obvious who was lucky to be in a position to win the game.

To say we were out coached? Look at the total yardage. Well coached teams win even when they have less yardage. I believe this is the first TIME where we have had less yardage, but we won the game regarless......good coaching.

That last FG that is bringing heavy criticism against CJM, if we had scored a Julio TD, we would still be #1 in the AP, and the whole storyline would be different and that play would have been the money play from the game, shown all over the country. Instead, Julio gets shoved, the fans are complaining about what "Bear would have done", and the storyline continues "GMAC is on a TD drought" "Bama doesn't have the most balanced offense anymore, it's IOWA" and so on.

Tennessee came to play their historically main rival, and that credit goes to the players and coaching staff, I applaud them, but still believe their coach is a ticking time bomb that will inevitably butt heads with the institution because he won't understand why he is not treated like Saban and Myers(Clout), and if he can achieve early success, will bolt to a PAC-10 team/

There were some questionable calls earlier in the game, we should have run the wildcat more, GMAC should have thrown some deep passes(injury?) but instant gratification aside, I totally understand attempting to throw a TD.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atrcvPbFod8"]YouTube - McElroy to Hanks for a Touchdown ALABAMA![/ame]

 

[mlh]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

That last FG that is bringing heavy criticism against CJM, if we had scored a Julio TD, we would still be #1 in the AP, and the whole storyline would be different and that play would have been the money play from the game, shown all over the country. Instead, Julio gets shoved, the fans are complaining about what "Bear would have done", and the storyline continues "GMAC is on a TD drought" "Bama doesn't have the most balanced offense anymore, it's IOWA" and so on.

CT, you are absolutely right. OTOH, as long as we're throwing around IFs...IF we had fed the ball to Ingram...and IF he had punched it in...we'd all be talking about how this team looks like the dominating Tide teams of old...how the TD drought in the redzone is over...and the headlines would all be about Ingram scoring the TD that put the game out of reach and kept his Heisman hopes alive. Bama would've very likely won by 2 TDs instead of 2 points...and would likely have jumped UF in the BCS poll, also. So, there are many correct opinions if you talk about all the things that could have happened. But the only thing that matters is what did happen.

On the radio this morning I heard someone make a great point. We had 2nd and 2 on the 4 yard line. That gives us 3 plays to get 2 yards and a 1st down. Then, if we get the 1st down, we have another 4 plays to get the remaining 2 yards. It's hard to believe that UT could have kept Ingram from getting 4 yards on 7 plays...especially if we put in Cody to lead block for him.

I hear a lot of people talk about the offense "taking what the defense gives you." I understand the philosophy. But sometimes...if you're truly the best team in the nation...you impose your will on your opponent rather than take what they give you. I think this is one of those cases...when you're inside the 5 yard line...with RBs like Ingram and Richardson and Upchurch...and you need a TD that will break the spirit of the opposing team and give your offense a huge confidence boost. Hit them in the mouth and prove to them, and everyone else, that your offense will not be denied when it has the ball inside the 5 yard line.

 

[TiderInTally]

Re: what is wrong with our offense (merged threads)

Playcalling is one of the reasons for GMac's subpar numbers this week. The goal line debacle is another discussion, but think strategically for a minute. Unless Alabama's offense recovers its balance, the Tide are unlikely to get to the SECCG, much less win it. So what is CJM to do? Well, his game plan, especially early on, emphasized getting the in JJ's hands with short throws, with the idea that he would make plays in space. The purpose was, I would imagine, twofold: (1) build up your QB's confidence with easy, low-risk throws, since he has just come off a few shaky performances, and (2) get the ball into the hands of one of your best, but underutilized, weapons.

If the running game and defense continue firing on all cylinders, this is fine "big picture" strategic thinking - up to a point. And it worked, or so we can hope. GMac played - not "well" exactly - but not badly (and certainly better than in recent weeks), completing 62% of his passes, making fewer mental mistakes, and not turning the ball over. Not much yardage, no TD's and some missed reads; but still, GMac was a couple of dropped passes and an endzone mugging away from a very respectable performance. Also on the bright side, pass-blocking was better, if not great, with fewer hurries and no sacks allowed.

We can only hope that CJM's strategic gamble will pay long-term dividends, because clinging to this strategy for too long nearly cost the Tide a conference loss against a major rival. Alabama did not complete a single pass of 20 yards or more, and JJ's long-ish (12-14 yards or so) "receptions" were on throws so short they were essentially running plays. The nearly complete absence of a vertical passing game was a primary reason that 3rd down efficiency was so poor. After halftime, UT adjusted and began crowding the line of scrimmage against the run. As a result, time-of-possession in the second half was downright nightmarish, leaving even a CNS-trained defense obviously gassed against a surging UT in the last few minutes of the game. Thank goodness for the week off, as even Rolando McLain does not get his legs back until Thurs. or so after a game like that.

Also, UT was selling out against the Wildcat, begging to get burned like toast by some kind of misdirection. A reverse, a shovel pass, a QB throwback, or halfback pass - something. I pray that CJM was just holding back, and not incapable of seeing what Gary "Tebow-Man-Crush" Danielson was calling for every time the Tide lined up in the Wildcat.

 

[squeally dan]

Questions about Gmac/offense.

I still feel a bit confused about the game Saturday against TN. I seems like Gmac has gotten lots of blame but did he actually play bad Saturday? I know they didn't let him throw many long balls & I saw the play where Julio was standing there wide open. Still, overall I thought he played well. He completed lots of short passes. Isn't that basically what Barker did? Isn't that enough as long as we can get the running gmae going? Also, is our line giving him enough time to throw & complete the long ones. Just my thoughts.

RTR.