Pete Thamel is reporting Caleb Downs beginning process to enter portal.

BamaInBham

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Idk. There are very few players that feel like this. He might be the best safety/defensive player in college football already.

This one hurts more than most IMO. Would have been a massive win if the new staff could have kept him. More frustrating because it feels like we probably keep him if we found a way to keep TRob
It's not worth a lesser coach to keep one player or even a few. IMO, TR is a good CB coach but a mediocre DC. I prefer what Alabama has to TR, even if it means losing Downs.

Downs is a very serious kid, I don't know if it is money or the staff or some other reason. I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt because he is so serious regarding his career. At least for the moment, I don't blame him but assume that it is career-related in his mind.

But frankly, even if it turns out it was money or some superficial, non-career-related reason, I don't tend to blame the players. IMO, it is the reckless system that cowards and the misguided have allowed to come to pass that is the culprit. And I know this sounds Bama-centric, and maybe it is, but while I don't believe the chaos was designed to hurt Alabama or really had any intent or design at all, I do believe that many are less inclined to fix it when they see that it hurts Alabama in various ways.

On a more optimistic note, whether Byrne, who I respect, had this in mind or not, IMO, CKD is the type of coach that better suits the current and developing climate than CNS was. He is less dependent on recruiting which is still very important, but we know it is losing some of its significance. While I have always believed that CNS was underrated as a game-day coach and he remained so to the end, CKD seems to be an elite game-day coach. And while CNS was a great developer of talent, it seems that his staff's skill in this area had dropped off in the last few years. Again, CKD appears to be elite in this area.

If the talent drain continues without adequate replacements it may take a bit longer but some patience should be accorded the new coach.
 

81usaf92

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Apr 26, 2008
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I'd give it some time before giving it that label. In my opinion, Saban has been fighting this decision since last season and the signs were right there in front of us. "He looks tired", "I want angry Saban back" , "He doesn't look into it" etc.

The program, in general, started to show obvious cracks and the most recent, most obvious example was against Michigan. The entire staff flat out got out coached relative to the talent on the rosters. Trust me, he could have done it at a worse time, it just feels like the worst to us. But in hindsight, the signs were literally looking us in the face.

Let's chill, give the guy time to do what he seems to be able to do to get a career coaching record that has currently has. RTR
Give a few years and someone will scoop the details from a few failed NFL stars on last year’s team and from staffers. But I can say that I wasn’t shocked by his announcement but more surprised that he finally went through with it. I remember before the season I was talking to @selmaborntidefan and we both pretty much said if we win it all then there is high likelihood that Saban retires in Houston.

Truth is Saban has been dealing with having to settle for lesser coaches, dealing with player issues, and have been dealing with a lack of support in terms of nil boosters and regular boosters contributing to the program. I honestly think Saban had plans for this season being the last for some time and the fact that other coaches seemed to know it, the BOT knew it, and many in the media knew seemed to suggest this wasn’t near a spur of the moment ordeal like he is trying to paint it. I actually think he is trying to take heat off of Byrne and others by saying it.
 

JD Dupree

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Feb 8, 2017
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A lot of people keep talking about the timing of CNS decision, lack of plan, etc. but the fact of the matter is CNS could have (or may have) told Byrne at the beginning of last season that this could/would be his last. The reality is that the ultimate outcome of who was hired could not have been planned in advance. Dabo is older (not using the portal, slow decline, etc.); Sark maybe he was an option/maybe we reached out and maybe he said no (either way we get in a bidding war with Texas, which Bama likely would not win); Kiffin (if everything is as bad as it seems - the powers that be (and maybe CNS) would not let that happen). Mike Norvell?? Maybe - but again we may have inquired, FSU just got hit with sanctions.

So outside of those folks, there were no other "clear choice" options as CNS's successor . We did not have an OC or DC that we would turn the reins over to ala Ryan Day after Urban; Marcus Freeman after Brian Kelley, etc. Certainly would not hand over to a position coach (re: T-Rob).

This is going to be a transition for everyone involved, CKD, Byrne, the entire Athletic Department, fanbase etc. What I really hope doesnt happen is that folks in the Athletic Department do not pull the "CNS would not have done that/this..."

I for one am excited for what may come, maybe we will actually use the TE this year! RTR
 

GeorgiaTider

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100%, Saban's timing was HORRIBLE
I'm not sure about that. Is there ever an opportune moment for a coach to depart? Would it genuinely have benefited the team or the players who wish to leave if he had announced later? Is it advantageous to have players on the team who desire to leave?

On a broader scale, the era of players committing solely to a college, like Alabama, is fading. Players are now committing to coaches and the possibility of being drafted into the NFL. Considering that most college players won't make it to the NFL and have a limited playing career, they aim to maximize their opportunities in college. Most of us would do the same. The high talent player does not look at this as a game. It is an employment opportunity.

Timing doesn't appear to be a critical issue in this situation. Alabama is simply going through what other contenders will face when their successful coach departs. It falls on the new coach to effectively present himself and his staff to retain talent on the team.
 
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skipster63

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The bad thing about being at the top of the mountain is the fall when the eventual reset button is hit. The timing of Nick’s decision is somewhat irrelevant. It was going to be epically painful no matter when he decided.

If there is any good news, it’s that we are hopefully near the bottom. I have said this before and our AD has said as much, we will need to focus on our collective to get and keep some of the better players. We have not had to do that before with Nick as our coach. This was inevitable in losing a legend. We could have retained some coaches and reduced the fallout but it would have been at the expense of limiting or reducing the ceiling of the program. Might as well just rip off the bandaid and let’s get this over so we can hit the restart. That said, it hurts but this shall pass.

I remain optimistic about the future of the program. Not sure I could have said that post Bear and the choices made then but we have excellent leadership at Bama and a great AD. Also, keep in mind this very thing we are experiencing is what added to the exhaustion of CNS. You can’t focus on coaching because you are herding cats in this new format. You could see it in Nick‘s face in the presser following signing day when he was trying to prep for Michigan. Until there’s some structure that is sensibly thought out and enforced, this is the new reality facing coaches. Every year will be a reset and we might as well get used to it.
 

mdb-tpet

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In reality, there is never a good time to retire for a coach. Losing a few players switching between administrations is going to happen regardless. I would rather uncommitted players leave. It gives the coach breathing room to bring in players that fit their system. The fact that we have a new coach about a week after Coach Saban retired tells me that Coach Saban did all of the necessary things to keep the program running as well as it could be run during a transition.

Additionally, I've never liked "the sky is falling" panic approach to having one not-so-great recruiting cycle when new head coaches are hired. So many teams panic and hire poorly just so they can keep some of the recruited players when 3 years down the road they realize they have the wrong head coach/staff and the coaching staffs have wrecked more than one recruiting cycle with a less-than-the-best-available coaching hire. I'd rather lose several recruits and have a Nick Saban hire than keep all of the recruits and have a Tommy Tubberville head coach.

Finally, I just hope we can keep the program close to the current status and not got through a Perkins/Curry style transition again.
 
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colbysullivan

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I'm not sure about that. Is there ever an opportune moment for a coach to depart? Would it genuinely have benefited the team or the players who wish to leave if he had announced later? Is it advantageous to have players on the team who desire to leave?

On a broader scale, the era of players committing solely to a college, like Alabama, is fading. Players are now committing to coaches and the possibility of being drafted into the NFL. Considering that most college players won't make it to the NFL and have a limited playing career, they aim to maximize their opportunities in college. Most of us would do the same. The high talent player does not look at this as a game. It is an employment opportunity.

Timing doesn't appear to be a critical issue in this situation. Alabama is simply going through what other contenders will face when their successful coach departs. It falls on the new coach to effectively present himself and his staff to retain talent on the team.
I'm not saying he did it on purpose, and I'm not blaming him for anything. He's earned the right to leave however and whenever he wants. But we are still left with our pants down due to the timing. It sucks.
 
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Where the land meets the sky
I'm not sure about that. Is there ever an opportune moment for a coach to depart? Would it genuinely have benefited the team or the players who wish to leave if he had announced later? Is it advantageous to have players on the team who desire to leave?

On a broader scale, the era of players committing solely to a college, like Alabama, is fading. Players are now committing to coaches and the possibility of being drafted into the NFL. Considering that most college players won't make it to the NFL and have a limited playing career, they aim to maximize their opportunities in college. Most of us would do the same. The high talent player does not look at this as a game. It is an employment opportunity.

Timing doesn't appear to be a critical issue in this situation. Alabama is simply going through what other contenders will face when their successful coach departs. It falls on the new coach to effectively present himself and his staff to retain talent on the team.
If he had announced later, we may not have been able to get a high quality hire for HC and Coordinators.
 

JergusTide

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We should treat this as a rebuilding year, but we're not in the same shape we were in 2007. Yes, losing Caleb Downs is a big bummer. Dude can play some defense. We're not going to replace him, but someone will step up and play their best. We're entering a new era of college football. Gone are the days where almost all of our players are from Alabama and everybody was playing for the University of Alabama. Most guys these days, are playing for "their" future, not Alabama's future. It's sad, but that's just the way it is. I have confidence CKD will get the guys that do stay playing together and playing really tough and motivated.
This. Exactly. We are in a new era of college sports - like it or not. Being successful will take the type of adjustments Coach Bryant and Coach Saban made during their careers. These are overarching changes to the college landscape that are going to affect everyone. Just the new reality - not always great, but here nevertheless. RTR!!
 
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bamacpa

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Any of you Saban critics still working 70 plus hours at age 72 ? If not, maybe don't pass up this golden opportunity to think before you post. Coach Saban restored this program to relevance and took us to heights no one on this board imagined back in 2006. To criticize him for the timing is just unbelievable. I'll stop before I get banned.
 

JohnD

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Frankly, Coach Saban screwed us by announcing when he did and not giving Byrne a head's up. If he'd waited even until today it would have been too late for players to transfer to other schools, allowing the new staff to keep them through spring practice and build relationships.
The timing would not have mattered much with regard to players transferring. Schools have exceptions in place for athletes transferring in. From Alabama's perspective, the earlier this happened, the better. It gives DeBoer more time to assemble his staff and infrastructure, and get prepared for spring practice.

And let's be honest here. Getting an education/diploma is 4th or 5th in priority for most football players, maybe lower. Tutors are going to do the heavy lifting anyway for those who are not interested in learning. Fast track to the NFL is what's on most of their minds, leveraged off of a program/coaching that can develop them to do that, and early playing time are much higher on the priority list. Making the most money you can along the way is arguably the highest priority.
 

81usaf92

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I'm not saying he did it on purpose, and I'm not blaming him for anything. He's earned the right to leave however and whenever he wants. But we are still left with our pants down due to the timing. It sucks.
So how is timing the issue?

Let’s say he said right after the Rose Bowl… Well now you are having the same issues you have now, Deboer is off the table for atleast a week, and there is probably a longer process because from every indication Byrne’s man was Deboer from the start.

Now let’s say he does it right after ESD. Okay that thirty day window still doesn’t start until the Alabama season is over because CNS is still coaching. So same situation as before.

Now let’s say after NSD. Okay by NSD everyone has their spring plans in place and all their early enrollees in. So you are going to have to convince someone to leave after making plans for the spring and having their calendar already settled. Then you are basically either telling them that they either have to accept the schedule that the outgoing coach made or quickly make one up on the fly. All the while having to face that 30 day window that now includes your NSD and ESD recruits and you are forced to come up with a staff. Also the mandatory speaking engagements for a new coach will be at breakneck speed. So this clearly the worst option.

If you are going to have to change coaches, right after the season or in the middle of the season are the best times. You are able to secure better coaches and you have more time to establish a culture. However you are just going to embrace the suck that first 30 days.
 

TideEngineer08

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I don't have a problem with Coach Saban's retirement. But something about it didn't feel right to me, and probably never will. Because there are questions that I have, which I'm not going to ask, because they would never be answered anyway.

But in the end, he earned the right many times over. What he did for this University will far outweigh the fallout it will go through over this next year or two. It's painful, but it was always going to be painful.

The portaling is not his fault. It's simply revealing who really wanted to be here. And frankly, it should come as no surprise. And double frankly, I still think we've done quite well all things considered.
 

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