Jeremy Elder arrested - discussion of legal issues, etc...

[CrimsonBleedRed]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

(Sighs of disbelief)

JE was going to become a part of a very special team in Alabama football history, and he potentially blew that opportunity because he felt he needed to "owned" another persons' "property."

I'm not going to judge the kid, because he is just that a kid. It's not my job, anybody else job on this board to judge the kid. I just hope the kid learns from it, and becomes a better person.

 

[Bama Torch in Pcola]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

I'm not at all sure he's guilty. If he isn't, I hope that all the stone casters are willing to step up and admit they were wrong. If he is guilty he will get what he deserves.

I blame the draconian athlete employment policies of the NCAA.

 

[Calvinwebster]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

He has not been convicted. He has not stood trial yet. I remember a time in America when people were innocent until proven guilty. When did it become guilty until proven innocent? This could be a misunderstanding. Why judge until all the facts are laid on the table? Anyone who has gone to the University knows the UPD makes mistakes. I am not taking any side on this because I have never met him. But if that was your child, brother, etc. you would want all the facts to be laid on the table and a conviction by 6 or 12 before you all start throwing stones at him. Now if he is convicted he should be punished, but wait until that time!!!!!

 

[Blanda's Shoes]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

I blame the draconian athlete employment policies of the NCAA.

Yeah, it's hard out there for a scholarship athlete.

Seriously though, the poster who mentioned his being from College Park may be on the mark, sadly. I had a job once working with guys around Elder's age, some of them from worse places than College Park, GA.

One time I had a meeting with them and the room we were scheduled to use was locked. So this one guy--nice guy, good worker, and a former gang banger--says with a straight face, "I guess we can bust out a window." No malice to it whatsoever either. This was just his problem-solving skills at work.

When I said, "no, I think we'll go back and ask for the key," he looked at me like I'd just invented time travel.

 

[GrayTide]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

Before I don my hair shirt, I would like to point out that there is a difference. If Coach Saban went over to the victims' house for a visit, and the victims mysteriously dropped the charges, and Elder stayed with the team and played, then the comparisons would be apt.
Instead, Saban immediately and categorically suspended the player. If and when Elders pleads guilty or is convicted (assuming for the sake of argument he is guilty), I believe he will never get near an Alabama football uniform again.
While it is an embarrassment to the University for a Saban-recruited player to get charged with this, what the University does from here says a lot.
Instead of being like other universities (where coaches get charges dropped after talking to the victim's parents or offer the "boys will be boys" excuse), it would appear that the University and the Coach have taken every prudent and appropriate action.

I agree with your comments 100%. What I was trying to convey is that no program is immune to this type behavior, it goes with recruiting individuals from backgrounds where character may be an issue which all programs have to do to remain competitive. I am not comparing what has happened at Alabama with cirucumstances at other schools, just saying if we sit in judgement and make fun of other programs we should be prepared for their rebuttal.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

I can judge evidence and circumstances on my own without having to wait on twelve of my colleagues to give their opinions.

BnB, that type of thinking is exactly the same as lynch mobs. You have no knowledge whatsoever of the facts and circumstances. All anyone knows at this point is what's in the police report. I'll just say that most lawyers learn early to take police reports with a grain or two of salt. And, LD is right, this is about one post short of being moved to the NS forum...

 

[PaulD]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

Here is what we know:

1. He has been arrested. Since he wasn't caught while committing the offense, that means the police had enough evidence to persuade a magistrate that there was sufficient evidence to support an arrest warrant. (We can question just how much evidence particular magistrates require in real life, but that is at least the way the system is established.)

2. Bail was set.

3. ???

At the moment, that's about it. I think Coach Saban has done the right thing in suspending him, pending the outcome of the case. What will happen if he is convicted remains to be seen. I was taught in law school that sentence comes after a trial and not before. I can wait and see...

 

[J.Will]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

As I said, no one is putting him in jail without a trial. "Guilty until proven innocent" is a legal concept. Most lawyers may take police reports with a grain of salt, but they also know that the cops make very few arrests without evidence, and most people who are arrested are guilty of something. Maybe armed robbery will end up being a stretch, but I doubt Mr. Elder was in church choir at the time this incident occurred. I suspect Mr. Elder will not be returning to the football team anytime soon. I am sure Coach Saban has already taken a look at the situation and determined how best to handle it given our personnel. Fortunately for the team, I think this is little more than a soap opera. I hate it for Jeremy, though. Stupid, stupid decision.

You do get put in jail without a trial. Trust me I don't recall going before a judge when they threw me in there one night. You don't get put in PRISON without a trial.

Just listening to what's coming out I think a decent attorney could tear this case apart. It occured late Saturday night. Most likely the "witnesses" had been drinking a some point. It's dark. Unless they recovered a weapon or someone's wallet in his possession I don't see how they can make this stick.

As for getting 3-5 years. Really? The guy who robbed and pistol whipped my brother in Birmingham didn't get jack. Of course, he was the Birmingham DA's crack head husband.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

they also know that the cops make very few arrests without evidence, and most people who are arrested are guilty of something

Sorry, but we don't know that at all. I do know that a lot of arrests occur because there's pressure from above, and the solution to the cop's problem is to arrest somebody who vaguely resembles the suspect. It's way too early to start jumping to some of the conclusions I've read here today...

 

[Calvinwebster]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

Have we learned nothing from the Duke rape case??

 

[BamaInBham]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

seems like the poster is implying that CPB could recognize kids with character issues and thus would have never signed Jeremy. My guess is the proof is that CPB never had any kids get out of line since he could spot bad seeds a mile away. Well, except for Joe Willy, and the father of a recent former very popular QB....but other than them, nobody ever did anything out of line.

I don't know if you are kidding or not, but there were plenty who "did things out of line". Not armed robbery that I'm aware of, but plenty, including illegal firearms and the like. Coach Bryant's day was much easier, less media coverage, more sympathic media coverage, and a society in much better shape than today.

Btw, Coach Saban only had a couple of weeks to evaluate the players he signed last year.

 

[alextupelo]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

I don't know if you are kidding or not, but there were plenty who "did things out of line". Not armed robbery that I'm aware of, but plenty, including illegal firearms and the like. Coach Bryant's day was much easier, less media coverage, more sympathic media coverage, and a society in much better shape than today.

Btw, Coach Saban only had a couple of weeks to evaluate the players he signed last year.

Just a news flash, AJ's post was tongue in cheek.

 

[rgw]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

I don't think they'd arrest a person on just meeting a description. There has to be something that connects the accused to the occurrence. Innocent until proven guilty...but at the moment I feel like it's closer to guilty than innocent.

 

[NYBamaFan]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

Sorry, but we don't know that at all. I do know that a lot of arrests occur because there's pressure from above, and the solution to the cop's problem is to arrest somebody who vaguely resembles the suspect. It's way too early to start jumping to some of the conclusions I've read here today...

I agree. It doesn't look good, but we have seen no evidence of any sort. All we have is a police report and an arrest. We don't know what led the police to Elder. We really need to be more patient and let this develop. If he is innocent, how must he feel about being abandoned by everyone so easily?

 

[J.Will]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

It bothers me that so many of the family have already convicted this guy. If he did do it, then he deserves whatever punishment the courts deem appropriate. I have, however, done a little bit of research.

In 2006, there were 6,564 reported robberies. These can include all forms of Robbery (meaning a theft of property involving the use of force): Highway, Commercial, Residential, etc. Of these 6,564 case only 2,009 were cleared, meaning an arrest was made. That is a clearance rate of 31%

The overall conviction rate for robbery in the United States (2000) was 31%!!!

So following that logic out of the 6,564 reported cases 2,009 were tried and of that only 640 merited a conviction by jury. I'm not sure if this statistic takes into account guilty pleas. That is less that 10%! So all you guys who follow the where there's smoke there's fire logic, where's your data?

Earle, since you undoubtedly have access to better and more current data than I, I would appreciate any correction or elaboration. I am going by the department of justices statistics.

http://www.acjic.alabama.gov/cia/2006_cia.pdf

 

[rgw]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

It bothers me that so many of the family have already convicted this guy. If he did do it, then he deserves whatever punishment the courts deem appropriate. I have, however, done a little bit of research.

In 2006, there were 6,564 reported robberies. These can include all forms of Robbery (meaning a theft of property involving the use of force): Highway, Commercial, Residential, etc. Of these 6,564 case only 2,009 were cleared, meaning an arrest was made. That is a clearance rate of 31%

The overall conviction rate for robbery in the United States (2000) was 31%!!!

So following that logic out of the 6,564 reported cases 2,009 were tried and of that only 640 merited a conviction by jury. I'm not sure if this statistic takes into account guilty pleas. That is less that 10%! So all you guys who follow the where there's smoke there's fire logic, where's your data?

Earle, since you undoubtedly have access to better and more current data than I, I would appreciate any correction or elaboration. I am going by the department of justices statistics.

http://www.acjic.alabama.gov/cia/2006_cia.pdf

Most crimes don't see trial in this country. The state wants minimal expense to get a conviction; lawyers want to barter if they know they can't win.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

CNS is certainly free to make his own assessment, which doesn't require proof beyond a reasonable doubt. His suspension doesn't mean he's reached a conclusion by any means. We need to wait at least until his conclusion - not necessarily for a judicial determination...

 

[rgw]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

CNS is certainly free to make his own assessment, which doesn't require proof beyond a reasonable doubt. His suspension doesn't mean he's reached a conclusion by any means. We need to wait at least until his conclusion - not necessarily for a judicial determination...

Agreed, Saban doesn't have the burden of proof on him. He does have litigious issues for the University he has to consider though. Whatever guidelines UA has in place for students under scholarship with a criminal charge are what is important at this juncture. UA has to hedge against legal action if they pull funding for a student when later the student is found innocent.

I expect that Saban and UA in general are going to let the legal system play it's course before making their final call on Elder. Right now he will be suspended but that is as far as anybody at UA wants to go. Even though Elder looks like a thug criminal that has damaged his career and relationship with the University, he did commit to UA and UA has a commitment to him by letting the courts find him guilty before they make a decision on his scholarship.

 

[Tidewater]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

CNS is certainly free to make his own assessment, which doesn't require proof beyond a reasonable doubt. His suspension doesn't mean he's reached a conclusion by any means. We need to wait at least until his conclusion - not necessarily for a judicial determination...

The suspension could be looked at two ways: a punishment or clearing this young man's calendar so he can focus on what is important.
I would couch it in these terms (were I a coach talking to the young man): "Bud, you need to focus your time and attention on dealing with you legal issues. If you are acquitted, there will be time to get football back into shape. If you get convicted, however, time spent on football now will be time wasted."

 

[crimson_blood]

Re: Jeremy Elder arrested.

The damage to the University and the football team has been done. All the fans from other teams in the SEC need is the arrest and a glimpse of that mug shot and here comes the "bunch of thugs" criticism. I'll presume that he's innocent until he's proven guilty...but that does not take away the black eye that we just received, fair or unfair. It seemed like we had so much positive momentum, too.

Saban has handled it 100% first class so far...he is to be commended.